In einem Beitrag für die Webseite Süddeutsche.de erwecken Lutz Knappmann und Stefan Plöchinger den Eindruck, deutsche Verleger würden stur auf überflüssigen Gesetzen beharren statt wie ihre französischen Kollegen pragmatische Geschäfte zu machen. Dabei aber übersehen die Autoren wichtige Zusammenhänge:
Der zentrale Absatz ihres Textes lautet:
Regel geht vor Geschäft
Die Medienhäuser in Frankreich und Belgien dagegen haben eine Einigung mit Google erreicht, ohne dass es tatsächlich eines Gesetzes bedurfte, und sich weiteren Streit erspart, der weiten Teilen der Öffentlichkeit unverständlich ist und meist dem Ruf der Verlage schadet.
Ist solch geschäftlicher Pragmatismus am Ende auch in Deutschland denkbar? Bisher sieht es nicht danach aus.
Den beiden Autoren entgeht, dass Google bisher immer erst dann Kompromissbereitschaft gezeigt hat, wenn staatliche Interventionen kurz bevor standen und fast unausweichlich schienen. Geschäft und Gesetz sind deswegen keineswegs Gegensätze.
Beispiel 1: Das Brüsseler Kartellverfahren
Vorschläge für Kompromisse im Brüsseler Kartellverfahren zum Thema Fair Search hat Google erst ein halbes Jahr nach Ablauf des Ultimatums gemacht und zwar erst, nachdem Wettbewerbskommissar Almunia seiner Verärgerung via Financial Times deutlich Luft gemacht hatte. Almunia sagte der FT am 10. Januar:
We are still investigating, but my conviction is Google are diverting traffic. They are monetising this kind of business, the strong position they have in the general search market and this is not only a dominant position, I think – I fear – there is an abuse of this dominant position.
Klarer kann die Drohung eines Mannes nicht ausfallen, der für scharfe rechtliche Schritte gegen Google größtenteils nicht einmal die Zustimmung seiner Kommissions-Kollegen benötigt und aus eigener Macht handeln kann. Die Financial Timmes bewertete seine Äußerung mit folgenden Worten:
His words mark a direct ultimatum to Google as talks on a pre-charge settlement enter a critical phase. They offer the most detailed public explanation of Brussels’ concerns and hint at the likely shape of any deal, which would mark the first time Google has bowed to regulatory pressure on its core business.
Google balancierte seit diesem Interview auf Messers Schneide. Almunia besitzt die Macht, dem Konzern die Gleichberechtigung aller Suchergebnisse – auch der eigenen – per Verhaltensauflage vorzuschreiben. Im Extremfall könnte er den Konzern zerschlagen und die Abspaltung der Suchsparte vom Restgeschäft erzwingen. Ganz abgesehen von den drastischen Strafgeldern, die seine Behörde verhängen darf.
Nur zwei Wochen nach diesem Interview reichte Google dann Kompromissvorschläge ein – Monate nach dem ursprünglich gesetzten Termin. (Über den Inhalt der jetzt eingereichten Vorschläge ist noch nichts bekannt.)
Erst dieser Druck war es, der Google zum Einlenken brachte.
Beispiel 2: Die Einigung mit den belgischen Verlegern
Nach gleichem Muster lief die vielzitierte Einigung mit den belgischen Verlegern ab. Auch hier stand Google unter Einigungsdruck. Das Unternehmen hatte ein Gerichtsverfahren verloren. Ihm blieb nichts anderes mehr übrig, als einen Vergleich zu suchen, um ein dauerhaftes Patt mit den belgischen Verlegern zu verhindern:
Ars Technica hat den Kompromiss folgendermaßen zusammengefasst:
A May 5 appeals court order upheld Belgium’s right to restrict Google’s search activities in that country, and it led to Google pulling the newspapers from its search index. (…)
The court also rebuked arguments that it is users who copy content when they access a “cached” news item. And the judicial body nixed Google’s contention that its news service only provides a hyperlink to and a quick snippet of a given news story: “‘Google News’ does not confine itself to placing hyperlinks but reproduces significant sections of the publisher’s articles,” said the court.
Auch in Belgien also das gleiche Verhaltensmuster: Erst maximaler staatlicher Druck löst bei Google Kompromissbereitschaft aus. Erst wenn alle anderen Mittel ausgeschöpft sind, setzt Vergleichsbereitschaft ein.
Beispiel 3: Die Einigung mit den französischen Verlegern
Noch stärker als in Belgien stand Google in Frankreich unter Druck. Ende Oktober 2012 hatte Präsident Hollande Google ein formelles Ultimatum gesetzt, sich mit den Verlegern zu einigen. Die Frist wurde auf nur acht Wochen festgesetzt und danach nur ein einziges Mal um vier Wochen verlängert. Um gar keine Missverständnisse entstehen zu lassen, gab Hollande das Ultimatum schriftlich auf Briefpapier des Elysée-Palastes heraus.
Einen Kompromiss geschlossen hat Google einen Tag nach Ablauf des zweiten, nicht mehr verlängerten Ultimatums. Hätte Google länger gewartet, wäre Hollande schon aus Gründen der Gesichtswahrung gezwungen gewesen, dem selbst aufgebauten Erwartungsdruck Folge zu leisten und ein Leistungsschutzrecht einzuführen.
Also auch in Frankreich wieder das bekannte Muster: Ausreizen aller Verhandlungsspielräume,, dann Kompromisses nach Toresschluss.
Beispiel 4: Die Auseinandersetzung mit den deutschen Verlegern
In Deutschland hat die Politik bislang nicht soviel Druck aufgebaut wie in Frankreich. Auch die Gerichte haben nicht so klar geurteilt wie in Belgien. Auch gibt es keine Kartellbehörde, die wettbewerbsrechtlich so entschieden vorgeht wie Almunia.
Google interpretiert die Lage konsequent nach seiner Logik: Der Druck ist nicht groß genug, um ein Angebot machen zu müssen. Es gibt noch eine Anhörung zum Leistungsschutzrecht im Kulturausschuss, dann die Abstimmung im Bundestags-Plenum, dann die Abstimmung im Bundesrat, dann vielleicht eine vierte Lesung im Bundestag, falls der Bundesrat mit rot-grüner Mehrheit Widerspruch einlegt.
Über viele Jahre hat Google jede Verhandlung über Geld kategorisch verweigert und alle Gesprächsansätze platzen lassen. Im September 2012 lehnte Google ein Verhandlungsangebot schriftlich ab und erteilte sogar die Zustimmung, den Wortlaut der Ablehnung zu veröffentlichen.
Geschäft oder Gesetz – das sind leider keine unabhängigen Handlungsalternativen. Geschäft mit Journalismus gibt es bei Google nur, wenn ein Gesetz droht oder eingeführt wurde.
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Tja, Herr Keese: Einen Monat alt sind die Fragen, die hier gestellt wurden: Warum beantworten Sie diese nicht? Welchen großen “großen B2B-Aggregatoren” ignorieren die Robots.txt und kopieren ganze Texte? Ich meine damit nicht irgendwelche Piracy-Seiten, die ganze PDFs anbieten und die Sie gerne ebenfalls als Aggregatoren bezeichnen. Sondern Angebote, deren Arbeitsweise man mit Google-News vergleichen kann. Also Unternehmen mit ladungsfähiger Anschrift, solche, die man identifizieren kann.
Belgien? “Auch hier stand Google unter Einigungsdruck. Das Unternehmen hatte ein Gerichtsverfahren verloren. Ihm blieb nichts anderes mehr übrig, als einen Vergleich zu suchen, um ein dauerhaftes Patt mit den belgischen Verlegern zu verhindern.”
Jupp voll der Kompromiss und so. Hoffentlich gibts genau den gleichen in Deutschland. Denn was war denn der “Vergleich?”
“Once Google received confirmation from Copiepresse that it would not enforce that penalty, and that it would also follow standard practices like robots.txt and metadata to exclude itself from crawling when desired, it restored the newspapers in search today, Morrison said.”
Beide Seiten haben sich darauf geeinigt, genau das zu tun, was Google von Anfang an wollte. Exakt die Linie, die Google auch in Deutschland fährt. Hoffentlich gibt es den gleichen Kompromiss auch in Deutschland. Besonders für Sie Herr Keese würde mich das freuen.
Zitat Christoph Keese: “In Deutschland hat die Politik bislang nicht soviel Druck aufgebaut wie in Frankreich. Auch die Gerichte haben nicht so klar geurteilt wie in Belgien.”
Ich darf das Landgericht Erfurt (Aktenzeichen 3 O 1108/05) zitieren:
Im Urteil heisst es:
In dem zu dieser Homepage gehörenden Quellcode (vgl. Anlage B 9) sind die Befehle in der so genannten „robots.txt-Datei”, die ein Auffinden der gesamten Webseite bzw. von Teilen davon durch Suchmaschinen verhindern, nicht aktiviert.
Die Kammer vertritt daher die Ansicht, dass ein Berechtigter, der ein Werk im Rahmen seines Internet-Auftritts allgemein und kostenlos zugänglich macht, stillschweigend sein Einverständnis mit Vervielfältigungen erklärt, die mit dem Abruf des Werkes notwendig verbunden sind (vgl. Berberich, MMR 2005 147).
Wenn er so viele Zugriffe wie möglich erzielen und die Aufmerksamkeit für seine Seite erhöhen möchte, muss er als Anbieter der Webseite mit Handlungen zum Zwecke des Zugriffs stillschweigend einverstanden sein. Ist er das nicht, kann er insbesondere den Zugriff durch die Suchmaschine der Beklagten zu 2) durch entsprechende Befehle im Quellcode leicht verhindern.
Es gibt also klare Urteile. Nur nicht im Sinne der Verleger. Deswegen der ganze Zirkus. Es mag sein, dass im die Entscheider in unseren Nachbarländern einfach(er) zu beeinflussen sind. Den Zitaten entnehme ich, dass sie auch nicht so genau wissen, worüber sie reden.
In Deutschland hat das Internet viele Freunde.
@ Michaela Merz: Falls Sie das Urteil richtig zitieren, woran ich keinen Zweifel hege, illustriert es ausgezeichnet das Problem. Selbst Stefan Niggemeier kommt in Sachen Bildersuche mittlerweise zu der Einschätzung, dass ein Alles-oder-Nichts-Prinzip nicht mehr ausreicht, Rechte im Netz auszudrücken. Deswegen können wir uns für künftige Zeiten nicht mit Gerichtsurteilen begnügen, die auf Basis unzureichender Gesetze ergehen. Gerade weil es solche Gerichtsurteile gibt, ist das Leistungsschutzrecht notwendig. Bisher haben Sie in unserer geschätzten Debatte immer daraus verwiesen, dass es in Wahrheit kein Durchsetzungsproblem gäbe. Nun zeigt aber das von Ihnen zitierte Urteil, wie groß das Durchsetzungsproblem in Wahrheit ist.
Welches “Problem” wird denn dort illustriert?
Das Urteil sagt einfach, das die Zugägnlichmachug via robots.txt. eine Einverständniserklärung gwegenüber Google ist, die Bilder entsprechend der TOS zu nutzen und das keine gesondertes Einverständnis des Urhebers vonnöten ist.
Wo sehen Sie da ein Problem basierend auf unzureichenden Gesetzen? Das ist eine eindeutige Sache.
Bloß wenn man das Fehlen eines angeblichen Rechtes, welches überhapt erst durch ein eigenen Spezialgesetz geschaffen wird, als unzureichende Gesetzgebung bezeichnet, dann erst wird ein Schuh daraus.
Aber die Brücke, die Sie sich da bauen, ist äußerst wackelig.
Und selbst dann kann ich Ihre Meinung, das obige Gerichtsurteil zeige die Notwendigkeit eines LSR an, beim besten Willen nicht mal ansatzweise nachvollziehen. Ebenso schlüssig wäre ein Fazit zum obigen Urteil, wonach in D mehr Tulpenbeete bestehen sollten …
Es gibt kein Durchsetzungsproblem. Der Kläger im obigen Urteil hat die TOS nicht gelesen bzw. verstanden und hat wohl angenommen, in der Welt gäbe es etwas umsonst – hier: Traffic.
bzw – auch ein Niggemeier befindet sich mal auf dem Holzweg
“Almunia besitzt die Macht, dem Konzern die Gleichberechtigung aller Suchergebnisse – auch der eigenen – per Verhaltensauflage vorzuschreiben. Im Extremfall könnte er den Konzern zerschlagen und die Abspaltung der Suchsparte vom Restgeschäft erzwingen.”
Es wäre naiv zu denken, ein EU-Kommissar könnte einen US-Konzern zerschlagen. Höchstens hohe Geldstrafen wären ein mögliches Mittel. Auch etwaige Vorschriften bei den Suchergebnissen sind nicht zwangsläufig gefährlich – so werden die Google Shopping-Ergebnisse schon jetzt als Werbeanzeigen behandelt. Zudem gehören die Daten aus dem Knowledge-Graph grundsätzlich nicht zu den reinen Suchergebnissen und wären davon somit auch nicht betroffen. Ganz abgesehen von den (zukünftig immer bedeuterenden) Informationen, die Google Now auf dem Smartphone liefert.
Und die Einigung mit Frankreich wurde sicherlich nicht aus Überzeugung geschlossen. Da Google stark vom Vertrauen der Nutzer lebt, bedarf es hierfür ein gutes Image. Durch staatliche Kampagnen drohte dieses Image größeren Schaden zu nehmen. Da nahm man bei Google lieber das kleinere Übel.
Außerdem konnte man dadurch der deutschen LSR-Bewegung noch mehr Wind aus den Segeln nehmen. Der große Verbündete Frankreich fällt den deutschen Verlagen also weg (siehe http://www.presseschauder.de/franzosische-verlage-signalisieren-unterstutzung-fur-leistungsschutzrecht/).
Sie haben also insofern schon Recht, dass Sie schon (überzeugte) Unterstützung aus der Politik bräuchten, um Google unter Druck zu setzen. Da aber Deutschland – im Gegensatz zu Frankreich – nicht so offen amerikaskeptisch ist, wird es schwerfallen, hochrangige Politiker oder gar die Kanzlerin zu finden, die eine solche Kampagne gegen Google forcieren würden.
Und wenn das so bleibt, sieht es sehr schlecht aus für die deutschen Verlage: Sie bekommen kein LSR, dass sicherlich schon im rot-grünen Bundesrat scheitern wird, und sie bekommen kein Zuckerbrot, wie es den französischen Verlagen von Google gerade gereicht wurde.
Zusammenfassung: Google muss durch die Legislative politisch unter Druck gesetzt werden, damit man ins Geschäft kommmt.
Nomrmalerweise würde nun in der Springer-Welt des Geschrei “Kommunismus!, Sozialismus!” losbrechen … jedoch nicht, wenn es dem eigenen Geldbeutel zugute kommt.
Billigste Heuchelei … der Markt richtet gerade die Zeitungslandschaft und die Verlage krähen nun nach dem Staat, um mittels Subventionierung bleiben zu dürfen, wie sie sind: von gestern.
Die Erklärung von Google zur französischen Einigung ist übrigens eine schallende Backpfeife für die Verleger. Im Jahr 2013 müssen die französischen Verleger mit dem Geld von Google fit gemacht werden für das digitale Zeitalter. Ein Armutszeugnis für die Verleger, und das gilt nicht nur für Franktreich.
Im übrigen ist es schlechter Stil, wenn Sie das EU-Kartellverfahren mit den nationalen Amokläufen zum Thema LSR in eine Topf werfen. Bei EU-Kartellverfahren wird Googloe zurecht angegangen, beim Thema LSR geht es um die Verteidigung grundlegerder Strukturen des Internets: die Validität des Verhältnisses von Index und Inhalt.
Das Team Keese sieht das Internet lediglich als Instrument zur Generierung von Reichweite – ansonsten wird bloß weiter Werbefläche, verbrämt mit journalistischen Beiträgen, verkauft.
Zeitungsverleger in D sind nichts anderes als Plakatkleber, die Werbung unters Volk streuen: noch auf Papier, und bald – mit Hilfe von Google – auch im Internet.
Würde es den Verlegern tatsächlich um ihre journalistischen Feigenblättchen aka Inhalte gehen, würden sie um ihre Inhalte Paywalls aufziehen und für qualitativ ansprechende Inhalte zahlen lassen.
Aber die Werbefuzzies der Verlagslandschaft können nicht aus ihrer Haut und das niemand für Werbung bezahlt, werden sie auch irgendwann mal begreifen.
“Abgesehen davon sollten Verlage nicht auf eine allgemeine Regel verzichten, um einen Vertrag mit einem einzelnen Aggregator zu schließen. Anderen Aggregatoren stünden sie dann schutzlos gegenüber.”
Wann hören Sie endlich auf mit diesen absurden Unwahrheiten? Sie können mit einzelnen Aggregatoren Verträge nach Gusto schließen und solchen, mit denen Sie nicht handelseinig werden, das Indexieren untersagen.
@ M. Winter: Und wie ist Ihrer Ansicht nach mit Aggregatoren umzugehen, die Robots.txt ignorieren?
Welche Aggregatoren, die vom derzeit diskutierten Leistungsschutzrecht betroffen wären, ignorieren denn die Robots.txt?
Nanu? Welche nennenswerten Aggregatoren ignorieren die robots.txt, und seit wann ist das für Sie überhaupt eine Option?
@ Meisterlein: Wollen Sie im Ernst behaupten, dass sich die großen B2B-Aggregatoren im Robots.txt scheren? Wenn überhaupt, dann interpretieren sie “Snippet yes” als die Einladung, gleich den ganzen Text zu kopieren. Robots.txt ist eine komplett wirkungslose Ausdrucksform, wenn sie ein Aggregator nicht um den Inhalt kümmert. Dann lässt er diese kleine Datei einfach links liegen.
Wer sind denn diese großen B2B-Aggregatoren, die sich nicht um robots.txt scheren? Und wenn Sie die kennen, schicken Sie eine Abmahnung oder verklagen Sie sie!
Das oben zitierte Urteil zu Google Images gilt nämlich nur, wenn die robots.txt keine Anweisungen enthält. Aber selbstverständlich können Sie Aggregatoren die Indexierung untersagen, und die müssen sich auch dran halten.
Google tut das ja auch.
Ich wiederhole meine konkrete Frage (darin bin ich hier im Blog ja schon geübt): welche Aggregatoren, die vom derzeit diskutierten Leistungsschutzrecht betroffen wären, ignorieren denn die Robots.txt?
Ich winke noch mal, erwarte aber natürlich keine Antwort.
Es gibt “rogue spiders”, die robots.txt ignorieren. Mit etwas Sachverstand lassen sich diese weitgehend per htaccess blockieren, was allerdings nicht hundertprozentig funktioniert.
Nur die lachen sich über ein deutsches LSG ohnehin tot, denn die sitzen in Asien, in der Ukraine oder in den USA. Das sind auch nie Geschäftspartner.
Aggregatoren, mit denen Sie Geschäfte abschließen können, ignorieren die robots.txt nicht. Und haben eine ladungsfähige Adresse.
Man bekommt hier Kommentare einfach nicht am Stück durch. Hier Teil 2:
Ja bitte nennen Sie mal einen dieser Aggregatoren, und dann schauen wir mal, was zu tun ist. Aber bitte nicht mit den jetzt schon illegalen PDF-Angeboten à la Avaxhome kommen.
Ich habe diesbezüglich übrigens recherchiert. Manche Verlage bekommen eine Löschung innerhalb weniger Minuten hin, andere scheint das Thema nicht sonderlich zu tangieren.